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Some of the visitors to this website may have noticed the removal of certain website links from this page as of July 27, 2004. The list of sites that were removed include Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship as well as several other Toronto Blessing/Renewal-related websites. I thought I would take a moment to explain why for some of our visitors who may have questions (as well as for some of my friends who have wondered why I have moved away from some of these "revival" concept ministries and mindsets in general). First of all, the removal of specific sites is not to suggest that the previously listed sites do not have anything positive to share (nor is in an endightment against all of those involved with these ministries). Some may indeed provide various beneficial information to some parties and may involve sincere ministry (or at the very least, sincerely-intended ministry) in some respect. The reason for removal also does not mean an outright rejection of all elements of the Charismatic or "renewal movement/Toronto Blessing" (as it has often been referred to). Many of you are aware that I was involved in the Renewal movement (a.k.a. "Toronto Blessing") in the mid to late 90's myself and witnessed what I genuinely believed to be the manifested power of God working in some really wonderful ways in some people's lives, including my own. I also am a believer in the gifts of the Spirit as the Bible teaches them. Just because some groups or individuals may abuse or distort the use, teaching and presentation of the gifts of Spirit does not change the fact that Scripture confirms their existence and validity for today. That having been said, I will share with you plainly that I believe the "Toronto Blessing" movement - overall - did not contain a "revival" in the biblical sense of the word (i.e. people repenting, turning from sin, believing the Gospel and being added to the kingdom of God). What I witnessed (and, to my shame, participated in) during that time has proven to bear more "bad fruit" than good (and it would take too long to detail every way how), so I am compelled to call it what it is/was; a false revival. It opened the door wide for false apostles and prophets to rush into the Body of Christ, spewing their lies and deceptions; twisted doctrines and subtle errors. I thank God for His protection and salvation and am so glad for His forgiveness and mercy. Hopefully I learned my lessons well and will not ever repeat them. Hopefully I have managed to keep my heart tender and soft to Christ and His inner workings of the Spirit, but sharply sensitive to false winds of doctrine, lying signs and wonders, and wholesale deception of God's people - who are, today, being caught up in a completely false concept of "Church" and "fellowship"; led away by the wicked manipulation of the devil and his "anointed ones". Because of what I've been through, studied and observed over the last several years, I do have a soft spot in my heart for those (hungry, sincere seekers of Christ) who have been victim of foul teaching and who may also have experienced twisted/false manifestations of the Gifts; however, I wish to reiterate that just because someone misrepresents the Gifts of the Spirit in application does not give us the right to dismiss the true Gifts from having application in the Church (i.e. the Body of Christ) today. I say this to reiterate that my rejection of the largest part of what transpired during the "renewal movement" (particularily that which was endorsed and orchestrated by its "leadership" and through many of the doctrines espoused through its teachers, prophets and publications) is not an outright dismissal of the supernatural manifestation of God's presence and power among people. I do believe in miracles, healing, and spiritual Gifts. I am also not offended when "manifestations" sometimes follow a work of God; however, I am more interested in what occupies the central focus. Is it truly Jesus and His Gospel... or something else? During the Renewal (quite honestly), the conversation was more about "the experience" than anything else. The Jesus that was talked about was a Jesus who seemed to be disconnected from the Gospel of Scripture (a more "New Age" kind of Christ). Even when people made efforts to emphasize that "it's about Jesus and not about experiences", still those same individuals regarded "non-experiencers" as being "religious", hard-hearted, resistant to the Holy Spirit, spiritually immature, and "blind" to the "true revelation". There was, indeed, much spiritual pride among these people who endorsed the movement (and I take my share of the blame for that pride that took root in my heart as well). As many of the participants of this "renewal" dismissed the warnings of unaccepting observers, the same seemed to cast off restraint and open themselves wide to false teachings and perhaps even demonic influence. My reason for removing most of the websites I had previously listed on the site (regarding the "Renewal" movement and the modern day "prophetic" movement) is one of selective non-endorsement (for lack of a better term). Many of these ministries willfully associate with ministry organizations and concepts that I cannot, in good conscience approve of anymore because of personal knowledge about some of their teachings and involvement with other (what I would consider to be) non-Christian or even anti-Gospel organizations. For example, I am saddened by the fact that groups like Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship have embraced the unbiblical teachings of the G12 program (for more information about G12 - "Government of 12" - read Tricia Tillin's excellent article for detailed information. There is also an excellent article/letter authored by one of the leading pastors that was part of Toronto Airport Vineyard movement who has since repented and shared his concerns about what transpired in that phenomenon. I very much recommend reading this: I am also generally turned off by so-called ministries that claim "special" or "higher" revelation or exuberant, supernatural experience and lofty-sounding religious agendas while merchandising their hearers into oblivion. You can pick virtually any one of the most popular "revival" or "prophetic" ministries out there today, visit their websites (or even one of their conferences), and find page after page (and table after table) of "God items" for sale; Especially their teaching materials, which often reach into the hundreds of dollars range. It doesn't take a cult watchdog organization to recognize that a disturbingly high number of men and women who occupy these kinds of "professional ministries" are fleecing the flock for their own financial merit and dragging the name of Christ through the mud. Paul (the apostle), in his letter to Timothy, warned that "men will be lovers of themselves and lovers of money." This was not a generic reference to people in the world, but specifically of those who would profess to be of the Faith!!!
Also, some of the more prominent leaders in the current apostolic/prophetic movement are known to have involved themselves in, and aligned themselves with, some extremely questionable groups and teachings... not to mention new age concepts and doctrines of demons. I even heard one prominent teacher say outright that Jesus is NOT the only begotten Son of God! There it is; even a direct dismissal of the Gospel. Another prominent minister said that Jesus never came to be the Messiah and yet another said that virtually all roads lead to God so it doesn't matter if you're a Hindu, a Mormon or even a non-believer, because God is saving people regardless of the factor of their non-acceptance of the Gospel! I have been completely shocked to see how so many of the most prominent individuals who presume to lead today's Church are caught up in deception and error. Some of these individuals include prominent religious figures like Rick Joyner, Paul Cain, Bob Jones, Todd Bentley, and others (many others... in fact, far too many to mention here). Those of you familiar with this website know that it is very rare that I ever mention teachers I am critical of by name... So why mention these by name? Well, there are actually several important areas of concern. One is that, while these men often claim to either be prophets or move in the prophetic anointing, I do not believe they meet the required biblical criteria, but I invite you (the reader) to weigh the evidence, use godly discernment and decide for yourself. This is not to suggest that all of these men started out bad. Some of them likely began in the Light and even published writings that motivated people with godly persuasions; However, somewhere along the path, it seems their discernment became dull, their eyes became blinded and their hearts were lifted up with pride. As a result, several of them have become as ones who (in my opinion) ought to be avoided and exposed for great error. Yes, we pray for their eyes to be opened, for their pride to be destroyed, and that their repentance be made sure so that they will return to right doctrine and simple faith in Christ, embracing the one true Gospel of Jesus, and acting with humility towards their brethren in Christ. None of the following comments are intended with malice or rejection of the truth that God loves them and is able to restore them to Himself (if they will but humble themselves and turn back to Him).       (Left to Right: Rick Joyner, Paul Cain, Bob Jones, Todd Bentley, Patricia King, and Chuck Pierce) I write these things because I've watched good people go into grievous error and I've also witnessed the frustration, confusion and depression these mindsets eventually bring upon those who yield themselves to it. Many good and godly people have been led away by hucksters of religion, who are deceived and deceiving others away from the truth. Even I, myself, have had to repent of many concepts I once embraced, which formerly held me in spiritual bondage and distracted me from true Gospel revelation and the incredible freedom there is in knowing Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and intimate friend. Some of the same individuals I will speak about here are ones that I formerly trusted as being genuine followers of Christ (and I sincerely pray for their return to Him). I am embarrassed by own naivety and ignorance about some of them in times past, but the experience serves to inform me how deceptive some of these people (and what they teach and practice) can be and how easily any believer can fall into manipulation by professed Christian leaders who dabble in false doctrine, greed, and even potentially the Occult, cultic, fleshly, and New Age philosophy. I do not share this information to spew anger about anyone, but to caution my brothers and sisters in Jesus to not let anything or anyone distract them from HIM! I pray that this information will not be used as a kind of proof-text document to aid someone's witch hunt or general pessimism about the existence of God, supernatural power, or gifts of the Spirit. My hope is only that all distractions will be moved out of the way because there is nothing more fulfilling than a genuine, living relationship with God. I wish someone had written a page like this for me to examine while I was starting to entertain the teachings of some of these people. Perhaps the questions and the challenge to be more discerning would have started sinking in earlier. I am so thankful for God's mercy, His forgiveness, and the faithfulness and love He extended to set me free, wake me up, and set me on a better path. God is good! I've noticed that a lot of websites that seek to expose false teachers and false prophets have an angry sense about them. They sometimes write as though anyone who professes a belief in the power of God or the notion that God actually speaks to us today is deceived and crazy. I don't believe that and the goal of this letter is not to dissuade anyone from believing in the genuine love and power of God. Neither is it the "mission" of this website to spend a lot of effort trying to root out and expose every potentially hazardous leader on the planet. In truth, I would rather encourage someone to fall deeper in love with Jesus and enjoy reading the Scriptures until a sincere conviction of truth and godly discernment begins to work in their own heart. The closer a person comes to Christ, I believe the more apparent what is true, as well as what is false, becomes. And how much better is it to perceive both of these things through a changed heart and eyes of love, rather than a critical spirit that just seeks to find error and gossip about it. A humble person will take the information to heart and first examine their own life and, if they know friends or family involved, take to prayer for them (as well as for those involved in the deception at the level of leadership). God desires that all people come to a full knowledge of the truth (even those who are currently helping to propagate it). So when our eyes open to deception, we should speak up about it, but love should compel us to a positive action not a critical spirit or malicious agenda. If God has opened your eyes, rejoice in the freedom you now have! Be glad that, though you once were blind, you now see. Let others see the reality of that joy shining from your face. Perhaps they will be even more persuaded to hear what you have to say. I understand that some individuals who speak critically about various false teachers are coming from a personal perspective of intense hurt. My heart goes out to them. Too many people have suffered abuse at the hands of false leaders who do not exhibit Christ-like behavior and who do not walk in the truth. I relate to the anger these folks feel and it is logical to understand why they feel a conviction to speak out and expose their offenders so that others will not be drawn into the same error they once were or that they observed loved one endure. The common criticism that supporters of alleged false teachers often say about those of us who raise questions or point out obvious errors is, "Oh you're just hurt and speaking out of bitterness." While I would agree that it would be wiser to allow the Lord to heal the heart and establish His forgiving love where there has been abuse and pain before setting out to correct all the offenders or making a kind of personal agenda to try to establish widespread distrust of them because of personal experiences, at the same time I must inquire of those who use the "you're just hurt" argument, "why is that a bad thing to confess and why are you being so cold and smug to your brother or sister in Christ who has been wounded by someone claiming to be God's mouthpiece?" Set aside, for a moment, your opinion of whether they are right or wrong... Where is the love? Where is the big brother kind of love that takes on the cause of the weak and wants to defend those who have been wounded, hurt and abused? Why is your first presumption about a hurt brother or sister that they are somehow in error, instead of immediately wanting to know, "Who hurt you?" If you, as a Christian, are wise enough to perceive that someone is speaking out of hurt, then why don't you also be mature enough to show them love, hear their case, and respond as a genuine brother or sister in Christ who has your family's well-being at state. Why don't you comfort them and investigate their cause rather than making arrogant reference to their wounds and dismissing them as insignificant and stupid. If we are made aware of imposters among us who are ravaging the flock like wolves, how can we not come to the aid of our brothers and sisters in Christ and stand up for what is true and stop excusing the error? We should stand up for truth! We should discern the good from the bad and discard the evil while holding fast to what is good. Jesus mixed no words about defending those who had been ravaged by influence of false teachers.
How many in today's religious system would say to a comment like this, "that isn't a very Christ-like thing to say; to tell someone it would be good for them to be drowned for their deceiving and abusive actions!" (ahem... and it was Christ who said it) Everyone knows the verses that follow this passage as well, but most give them the wrong application. We often remember Jesus saying, "If your right hand offends you, cut it off," and then make some generic application such as, "Don't steal cause Jesus says that's bad." The context, however, presents that Jesus is talking about individuals who cause His children to be led into error. So called "prophets" ought to pay very close attention to what Jesus said (Matthew 18:9), "And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better to enter heaven half blind than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell." How many of those today who claim "to see" are leading people into grievous error. Jesus is using very harsh language to express how deeply He is upset with the damage that false shepherds have done to His sheep. At the same time, He speaks with an attitude of mercy toward them: "It is better to enter heaven half blind (from having gouged out your "seeing" eyes) than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell." Jesus continues in verse 10 to again warn those who cause His children to stumble! Jesus has just finished talking about those who are led away into error by false leaders and then, in verse 12, He begins to talk about what a true shepherd is like, who seeks out the one who has been lost. How different is this attitude from those who write the "lost" ones off as "hurt". A true shepherd makes it his responsibility to watch out for wolves and to protect the sheep from being consumed by imposturous carnivores. As we read these things in context, it often begins to present quite a different story than the one we have pushed aside from hearing it so often and having been given the wrong application. We forget that God, in Scripture, was fed up a long time ago with self-professing shepherds who were abusing His people. In fact, He was so fed up that he vowed to remove them from the picture and replace them with ONE Shepherd; His Son - Jesus Christ!
Ezekiel 34:7-12 (NLT) - "Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD: As surely as I live, says the Sovereign LORD, you abandoned my flock and left them to be attacked by every wild animal. Though you were my shepherds, you didn't search for my sheep when they were lost. You took care of yourselves and left the sheep to starve. Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD. This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I now consider these shepherds my enemies, and I will hold them responsible for what has happened to my flock. I will take away their right to feed the flock, along with their right to feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths; the sheep will no longer be their prey. For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I myself will search and find my sheep. I will be like a shepherd looking for his scattered flock. I will find my sheep and rescue them from all the places to which they were scattered on that dark and cloudy day. You can see the Lord's disgust with how so-called shepherds, abused their privileged place of watchful care and sought for their own profit and left God's people to ruin in the process. Even more amazing is that God says, "I'm done with letting you have this position anymore! I'm taking over! I'm going to handle it Myself!!! I'm going to Shepherd them Myself!" Such strong words, in this writer's opinion, puts even today's so-called "pastors" in a hard place. God seems quite clear that there are not going to be any other mediators between man and Himself anymore!!!
John 10:11-16 (NLT) - "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. A hired hand will run when he sees a wolf coming. He will leave the sheep because they aren't his and he isn't their shepherd. And so the wolf attacks them and scatters the flock. The hired hand runs away because he is merely hired and has no real concern for the sheep. I am the good shepherd; I know my own sheep, and they know me, just as my Father knows me and I know the Father. And I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice; and there will be one flock with one shepherd. Today's so-called "shepherds" often have quite a big head about themselves. They love to talk about how important they are. They speak about their beloved "five fold government" (a term never once used or implied anywhere in Scripture). They forget these references, as we have just observed, of Jesus taking over as the ONE Shepherd of His ONE flock! They forget that the Bible prophecy concerning Christ was that the responsibility of governing His body would rest on HIS shoulders! How lofty and arrogant is the mindset of today's "ministry" structure. It is a fabrication of man, born of flesh and demonic inspiration.
We have one verse in the entire New Testament that mentions the word "pastor", and even it gives no description of function other than what is defined within the word itself... Yet somehow today, there are thousands of men (and women) who claim to occupy a position they also title "pastor." Yet their definition does not exist ANYWHERE in the pages of Scripture! Some of these individuals will argue, "Ah, but Jesus told Peter to pastor His sheep." They will tell you that the Greek word used in this passage is the same word used in Ephesians for pastor... They are correct, however, the word "pastor" in the Greek is not infused with the centuries of tradition that they define it according to. In other words, the term "pastor", used here, held ZERO implication of some title of professional leadership over other Christians. It simply means to feed! That is why the text says, "Peter, feed My sheep." Jesus never said, "Peter, get together a big following of people and get them under you!" Jesus NEVER told Peter, "Make sure you mediate their walk with God Peter and call yourself a Senior Pastor or a Spiritual Father." No, on the contrary, Jesus was very clear about titles and any concept that elevated them one over the other. He told His disciples, regarding the religious leaders of their day:
It might interest you to know that the Greek word for "master" used in the above passage (verse 10) appears only here in the entire New Testament and it directly translates "master teacher", "doctor", or "professor"! Just flip on the TV set, on Christian television, and see how many men and women preachers hold the title of "Dr." before their name. Jesus utterly shunned the use of titles in His Church because it creates a class of separation of one over the others and this completely violates His will.
Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible; Ref: Matthew 23:10 - "Neither be ye called masters - "leaders". God is in all these respects jealous of his honor. To him alone it belongs to guide and lead his Church, as well as to govern and defend it. Jesus is the sole teacher of righteousness. It is he alone, (who is the word, light, and eternal truth), that can illuminate every created mind; and who, as Savior and Redeemer, speaks to every heart by his Spirit..." People's New Testament Commentary; Ref: Matthew 23:10 - "Also an honorary title. All such are to be avoided in the church." John Wesley's Explanatory Notes; Ref: Matthew 23:10 - "Our Lord, therefore, by forbidding us either to give or receive the title of rabbi, master, or father, forbids us either to receive any such reverence, or to pay any such to any but God." All of that to illustrate how far today's "Church" has fallen from the very bold instruction of Jesus concerning those who presume to serve/lead His body. Such men ought to be avoided who so blatantly convey ignorance and dismissal of the clear teaching of Jesus. Make no mistake, God is looking out for His little lambs and is observing the actions of those who presume to lead them. They will be held accountable. As followers of the Lord, we ought to watch out for false leaders and lovingly warn our family in Christ. As I stated previously, I know some individuals have made it their "mission" to seek and destroy false leaders. That is not the goal of this website or even this writing. This writing will only alert to a few I am personally very aware of and which formerly were endorsed in some fashion by links from this website, but while I sympathize with the hurts many have endured at the hands of false leaders and false doctrines, I'm not sure it's productive to focus on it too intently. The Commission we have is to proclaim the GOOD NEWS about Jesus and that should be our focus. This does not ignore the responsibility to remain watchful of false leaders, but if our gaze is fixed on Christ, then recognizing error will be a much easier task... one that does not weigh us down with anxiety and increasing pessimism. I know, especially when abuses have been perpetrated by false leaders, the tendency to lash back sometimes brings with it such a painful sensitivity to anything that smells like the former abuse and deception that we may be tempted to throw out what is genuine and godly. For example, the prophetic gifting. Despite the fact that errors abound in today's prophetic movement, that should not automatically cause us to presume that the prophetic gifts are fraudulent altogether. The Bible presents them in a clear and right context. The importance is to discard the error while continuing to seek and maintain that which God has purely designed for the upbuilding of His body. I am not ashamed to say that I am still one who believes in the prophetic, but (at the same time) I reject MOST of what is touted as "prophetic" in today's institutional church system. Despite errors that sometimes abound, I believe there is are genuine supernatural workings of God among His people. I have "laughed" while pouring my heart out to the Lord and singing with joy for the love I know He has toward me. I've experienced prophetic insight as well as genuine dreams and visions from God that have encouraged me and helped direct my path at times. I believe those things because I find them entirely consistent with Scripture (Genesis 21:6; Psalm 126:2; Acts 2:17-18; Job 33:14-18; 2 Corinthians 12:1; etc.). I love the Lord and believe that He speaks today to His people, but His people have filled their ears with the enticements of false teachers and false prophets. I certainly don't claim to know everything or to be all discerning, but if I can simply encourage my fellow family in Jesus to be watchful and guard that closeness you have with the Lord so that no foul perpetrator of religion can sway you from His voice, then that is worth writing this article! Whether Christians want to accept the reality or not, there are liars present among them! Jesus and His apostles all told us, time and again, that this was true. But somehow, most church folks seem to have the mindset that, "well, that might be true in some other church down the road, but not my church... not my pastor... not my favorite evangelist, prophet, or teacher." Sigh... That is why I feel this needs to be written. And so I write this... not out of bitterness, but so that NOTHING will distract us from pursuing Christ Jesus the Lord as He is! One of the most concerning problems with some of today's so-called "prophetic leaders" is that they are espousing doctrines that are not biblical and actually come straight out of the New Age movement. Two such individuals are Todd Bentley and Patricia King, who frequently speak of guided visualizations, which are akin with New Age philosophy to its core. Todd Bentley is probably the greater offender here as he seems to be the one that pioneered this "new" doctrine and made it popular (while other ministers, like Patricia King, appear to be following his lead). Patricia has admitted, in various interviews, that she has been suspected of demonic, witchcraft, and other Occult influences - all of which she denies and claims to have submitted herself to a group of "intercessors" to pray and discern if anything is "off" about her ministry. Of course, any sincere skeptic, is going to ask why they should be impressed that she chooses the group who will examine her doctrines and activities; for it would seem they may just as likely be of the same mind and persuasion. This writer finds it a little curious that the complaints of involvement with the demonic and witchcraft would be frequent enough that Patricia would even address the issue and claim to be submitting herself to an observatory prayer team to "discern" whether there are sinister forces involved. Why is not simple Scripture enough? Why is a select team needed to do this "discerning"? Why not submit to a more external review by a recognized apologetics board. If she was cooperative and humble, she should be able to expect a fair and honest review and perhaps open a door for genuine dialogue, even with folks who have some problems with her beliefs. The fact that virtually none of these prominent teachers will subject themselves to the questions and concerns of their critics, would seem to indicate they don't have a clear, biblical defense for what they believe that will stand up to scrutiny. They have learned well how to manipulate the Scriptures to justify their agenda and they have becomed skilled in exhibiting persuasiveness to their followers. Submitting themselves to examination would be (to them) as sign of weakness and potentially damaging to the religious empires they hope to build on their wild and fanciful, non-biblical teachings. The funny thing is, these individuals are still being exposed. The difference is, because they have resisted examination before and have not chosen the path of humility and truth, they are more likely to be incredibly embarrassed when the truth comes out... and that's not just damaging for them, but it makes Christians in general look ridiculous. Perhaps some of them just don't care... Perhaps they intend to milk the masses for as much profit as they can before they lose face before the public. Who knows for certain? The important thing is for the rest of us who are discerning to steer clear of their error. Observe the following testimony of Lynn Clark (a website Moderator for 'RevivalSchool.com') who got involved with Bentley's ministry:
"I spent much of the night in tears asking God to forgive me - and renouncing all the hands layed on me and all the awful deception I had opened myself up to..." [END QUOTE] This is not the only report of New Age concepts that have been identified in King's and Bentley's ministry. In one of Andrew Strom's revival newsletters, he reports the following concerning Bentley's teachings:
Yet another commentator called it:
Many of today's so-called "prophets" have attributed a following of thousands. Yet, it is the opinion of this writer that many Christians are simply often terribly naive about the methods these people use to convince their followers that they are genuine prophets. While some of the men and women who occupy the "office" of prophet in today's religious scene may be deliberately deceiving their audience, many may simply be genuinely deceived themselves (actually thinking they are prophets), not even realizing that they have simply become caught up with worldly methods of effecting results, all the while thinking they are operating in a supernatural element. Besides those who actually do tap into a "spiritual source" for their information, there is a method often used by psychics, mediums and fortune tellers called "cold reading", which enables the "reader" to appear as though they have supernatural insight, though it is actually just a learned method of extracting the right information through asking the right kinds of questions and observing body language and responses, while taking educated stabs in the dark. Wikipedia's online resource adequately defines "cold reading" as follows:
 In the 1960's and early 70's there was a false preacher by the name of Marjoe Gortner who became very popular and traveled the revival circut preaching and prophesying. He often packed out meetings and was most convincing. He would speak in tongues, prophesy, and people would often fall down and shake when he'd pray over them (very much like what we've observed in the kind of "revival" meetings that are popular today). But the guilt of running this money-making scam caught up with Marjoe and he decided to finally get out of "the business", but before leaving it behind, he produced his own documentary and exposed himself! The movie is called Marjoe and you can buy it on DVD through just about any video reseller like Amazon.com. It's a sobering (and I must admit "entertaining") thing to watch. Marjoe also tells stories about other prominent preachers he knew from TV and radio that told him, face to face, how they deceive the masses and cheat them out of their money. Marjoe, to this day (undoubtedly because of his hands-on experience with "organized religion" and "the ministry"), does not profess a belief in God and continues to spend his efforts educating people how to spot a fraud and recognize the methods that are often employed to gain people's trust and dupe them of their money.Whether or not men like Todd Bentley fall into the Marjoe category or not, I do not know, but I think the fruit on the tree is enough to reveal to us whether or not he is trustworthy (regardless if he is sincere or not... for sincere people can still be sincerely deceived). If you're interested, watch the following video and notice how Todd is apparently (dare I say "obviously") "cold reading" these people. Notice how, when he gets a detail wrong, he quickly turns it around to make it seem he was implying the opposite; therefore turning a "miss" into a "hit" every time. This is appears to be a remarkably clear example of cold reading in operation. Folks who practice this all time get very comfortable with it and very good at it.  If you spend any time researching Todd on the Internet, you'll likely find a number of sites that criticize him of his past as a reason to reject him; However, I believe that his present doctrine and activities are just as alarming. Even more so, perhaps, because he is spiritually abusing people and leading them wholesale into error. When he was a young man, he was convicted of sexually molesting a seven year old boy and spent three years in prison for the crime. To this day, when asked about the prior offense, he chooses to refer to it as "crimes of an assault nature" and admits that he doesn't like to talk about it because he is concerned it will damage his ministry. The event transpired before Todd was saved and he claims total rehabilitation; that God changed his heart and totally delivered him of his past. While this news will certainly be alarming to many, if it's true that Todd underwent a genuine conversion, I think that's a significant detail. I've known a number of people with regrettable pasts, but whom God indeed changed their lives and healed completely. This is one of the amazing realities of the Gospel of Jesus; He indeed washes away our sins and makes old things new. As the song called "Grace" by U2 says, "What once was hurt, What once was friction, What left a mark, No longer stings, Because grace makes beauty, Out of ugly things." Christians do sometimes have a tendency to not let a person's past go, even when God forgives and forgets it and makes all things new... The thing about Bentley is that his present doctrine is very concerning. Interestingly enough, in Scripture, God often refers to spiritual infidelity using terminology that parallels that of sexual sin. In other words, spiritual abuse and error is equally distressing in God's eyes; just as corrupt, foul and disgusting as sexual sin. One website that has made the effort to fairly examine this issue concerning Bentley's past errors says the following:
But, in an age when the likes of Protestant televangelists and Catholic priests have been ensnared by sexual scandal, the issue is far from dead. Denny Cline, pastor of the Albany, Oregon, Vineyard church where Bentley launched a healing revival last year, looks on him as a spiritual son and says Bentley always exhibits a godly character. Upon learning of Bentley's molesting offence, Pastor Cline remarks, “I don't think he told me that, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway. It wouldn't have mattered in regards to what he is doing now, and the person that he is now…If he's paid his debt to society and God's forgiven him of everything, then who am I to not forgive?” On the other hand, Lieutenant Jeff Johnston, a Salvation Army pastor in Port Alberni, B.C., who used to work in Bentley's hometown, is more skeptical. “There's absolutely no way that I would allow my own kids to come within a million miles of anyone who had been involved in a youth sexual assault,” he says. Lieut. Johnston notes a church group tried to bring Bentley to Gibsons for a series of meetings in 1997, but the gatherings were called off after Lieut. Johnston and other pastors threatened not to allow their youth groups to attend. “It's one thing to be forgiving, it's another thing to be stupid,” Lieut. Johnston says. “If you, as a pastor, had someone in your church ministry who had been involved in these things and they ever re-offended, the fact that you knew and didn't disclose it to parents, take every precaution, would be a huge liability issue.” Forewarned is forearmed, says Canadian Alliance MP Randy White. Given the notorious recidivism of pedophile offenders, the federal government should pass the national sex-offenders registry bill he tabled April 4. Mr. White explains that police need to be able to keep track of sex offenders who enter fields such as itinerant evangelism. “It's worse not to admit the offence from the start,” Mr. White observes. “If you hide it, ultimately someone will cross your path and expose you. It becomes twice as hard to deal with.” Furthermore, Darrell Johnson, a professor of pastoral theology at Vancouver's Regent College and a Presbyterian minister, says that although Bentley promises his past is “dead and buried,” his victim–and the victim's family–are likely still suffering. The professor is also concerned that Bentley admits he has no team of pastors or counselors to help him now. Says Prof. Johnson, “Openness, transparency and accountability would protect him, as well as the people he ministers to.” [END QUOTE] As stated previously, it is Todd's present message that is very concerning and contains elements of New Age philosophy and practice as well as other bizarre "spiritual" antics. Equally disturbing is the fact that many of his preaching activities involve fleecing the congregation for money. Another former follower of Todd Bentley's teachings (Paul Ferree) made note of the testimony Todd himself gave in one of his services and how these tactics are also used to get money from those who are the recipient of his teaching (emphasis added by Paul Ferree):
"He keeps going and again says, “You can't buy the anointing, BUT…"“. And then says in regards to a story where he is giving to another minister that he was going to, “Sow it into the man…because there's something in the man that I WANT”. “I don't give for money, I want the glory”, “I'm reaping a 100 fold of glory realm” Even though he says “but”, he's still insinuating that somehow a financial gift to another minister will release the presence of God into our lives. What it really sounds like is that he's setting up the people to give to him…and that's exactly what happens." [END QUOTE] Apparently, at this meeting, Todd's "prophetic guidance" got people to start bringing offerings up right as he was preaching and they began to fill his pockets. When his front pockets were full, Todd noted that his back pockets had room too. He talked more about giving offerings to bless the man who brings the anointing and the money kept rolling in, so Todd continues, saying:
This report is lengthy and I am only quoting a very small portion of the entire message, which continue on and on about bringing money offerings to "the man of God" to get the anointing. I am boldly reminded of an occurrence in the book of Acts that we ought to remember:
Now observe the following extract from Todd's 2003 article 'Angelic Hosts':
As you can see, Todd is plainly admitting that he doesn't only pray to God but to angels... and for what purpose??? TO GET HIM MONEY AND WEALTH! But it gets even weirder than this... Andrew Strom reports in one of his recent e-newsletters:
On one occasion I observed Todd Bentley preaching about the supernatural and he said that God told him that he needs to get the people to "believe in the angel" (i.e. referring to the angel that apparently visits him and gives him the power in his meetings). He says that he replied to God, "shouldn't I first get them to believe in Jesus?" and Jesus (according to Todd) said, "No... They already believe in Jesus... The problem is that they don't believe in the supernatural." (You can watch the actual video here... Fast forward to position 5:30 - http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/355021). Make no mistake, "guided visualization" techniques (like those that appear to be taught unashamedly by Todd Bentley and Patricia King) are straight out of the New Age movement and (I believe) clearly represent doctrines of demons! It's basically a form of witchcraft! It does not matter if there is a little truth mixed in. That is exactly what deception always involves; "a little truth". Even the devil quoted Scripture to Jesus when tempting Him in the wilderness. Of course deception will take on the appearance of something people perceive to be "of God". Be wise! It may interest some to know that before Todd began experiencing and teaching about his angelic visitations, a man who attended some of his meetings prophesied to him that he should be on his guard about such phenomenon that was soon to touch his ministry (his account follows here):
"When God heals someone - He adds 'no sorrow.' "I know Todd started off OK - I was there in his early meetings… In September 2000 I stood in front of Todd and gave him the warning that God gave me for him. "Beware, the leaven of the Pharisees, lest an angelic leaven enters your ministry." "One month later, according to Todd's own account, at a meeting in Grants Pass Oregon, Cal Pierce walked in with Branham's 'Healing Revival' angel in tow, Todd saw and accepted this spirit without reservation. His 'angels' have been with him ever since. "I have written to Todd on numerous occasions and reminded him of God's warning, alas to no avail. "When Todd Bentley conducted a healing meeting in a large charismatic church here in England in 2005, he laid hands on many people who were apparently healed. I know of at least one instance where a pastor's wife with cancer was prayed for by Todd. Soon afterwards she heard voices in her head telling her to 'drown herself just like her father did'. The poor woman ended up in a mental hospital, I believe she still has the cancer. "No-one is following up or keeping records of what happens to people who have hands laid on them by Todd or others like him. "I have kept records as far as I can, concerning this particular church. Over a relatively short period, there has been a dramatic increase in premature deaths, cancers, marriage break-ups, sickness and disease amongst the congregation where the leadership have allowed this type of ministry into their church. Many people left the church in fear. "These are the consequences of following this type of 'ministry' which no-one is either aware of, or wants to address. I know, I have visited the people in hospital and attended one of the funerals…" [END QUOTE] THE FOLLOWING YOUTUBE VIDEOS CONTAIN EXCERPTS OF TODD BENTLEY'S PREACHING 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 - For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. Many folks are familiar with the name "Chuck Pierce" (self-described "apostle"). I recently read some fascinating information connecting his religious ideologies with the cult Jewish mystic religion known as "Kabbalah". I'm not one to entertain conspiracy theories, but this author noted some very striking observations of Mr. Pierce's "prophetic" statements in connection with almost word-for-word excerpts from the Kabbalah writings (the author gives direct links to Kabbalah literature and Chuck Pierce's direct quotes from his ministry website that you can read online and compare for yourself). Please note that I have not spent a lot of time researching Mr. Pierce as of the date of this writing, but feel free to do your own examination. This author appears to be presenting this information accurately (which is why I am mentioning it): http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/chuck-pierce-prophesies-the-kabbalah/.  Unfortunately, these examples only scratch the surface. There have been exposing reports of ministers who actually "planted" items in their services to be found in the service and make it appear as though a supernatural event caused it. For example, one minister (Glenn Smith of Shem Ministries - a Vineyard church in Arizona) was caught planting gems around the meeting place before the service! Glenn's ministry involved sharing his testimony of how he came to Christ and then people would start to find gems appearing in the service! The senior pastor of one of the churches that Glenn spoke at, published a letter to the congregation apologizing for the event (as they apparently obtained eye-witnesses and video footage of him planting the gem stones)! [Source: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/gemstones-fraud-glenn-smith-caught-redhanded/] You can find several videos of these "miracles" on YouTube.com. Glenn, to this day, still claims the gems are "from God" but has published the following note on his website concerning his getting caught: "I stumble and fall like any other individual and praise God for His faithfulness even when I mess up as has happened in the last couple months of 2007 and 1st month of 2008. The gemstones are from heaven. The manifestation is of God but so is the fact that I was affected by pressure and became disappointed when people did not find them and then failed by seeding. I therefore have taken a sabbatical from the ministry and stepped down for a season to get my heart right before God. I simply hope and pray that God blesses each and every one of you. In His Service, Glenn Smith." Another minister (Lucy Rael - of favorite mention on the Elijah List) was caught planting feathers so that people would think it was an angelic visitation! Apparently she was exposed while ministering at a church in Texas (Joel Osteen's church) and had the feathers hidden up her sleeves and they would fall into her hands and onto the person and onto the floor while praying for people! Of particular interest is the fact that Lucy was raised in the Roman Catholic Church, but has never renounced Catholicism (Lucy is also famous for her testimony of gold and blood appearing in her hands - "the stigmata"; a strange happening that is most common among Catholic mystics). [Source: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/08/new-mystic-stigmatic-lucy-rael-caught-faking-angel-feathers-word-of-knowledge/]  There is also a well-known account of a "holy woman" from Brazil (Silvania Machado) who deliberately planted "gold glitter" in her hair so that it would fall out while she worshipped and prayed [Source: http://www.intotruth.org/tb/golddust.htm]. Though Silviana claimed the dust had been analyzed and found to be pure gold, when the "gold" was officially anylized by external investigators (even through an examination by Charisma Magazine) it was found to be only plastic glitter. This forced her to change details of her story; that it must have changed at some point later. There are also a number serious questions surrounding Mrs. Machado's actual religious beliefs. During the events where the "gold dust" appeared she was noted to have mentioned the "devil's work" in her native tongue several times and uttered the phrase "by the gods' sake". The following is from a report related to the event: "With no intention of judging or influencing people's opinion about the origin of the gold dust (not gold any more, but plastic), or about Mrs. Machado's character, I want to stress four intriguing facts observed during her meteoric, chaotic passage by Taguatinga.First. Before her preparation for church service and after the gold manifestation, she complimented cheerfully the people with hugs and kisses. But after her preparation and before gold manifestation she avoided people, complimenting them at a distance. She even refused a lift offered by my daughter S., and preferred to drive her own car to church, facing unfamiliar, crowded traffic at night for about ten kilometers. At the entrance of the church she stayed in the car till presentation time. When I first met her, she had just prepared for her presentation, and complimented me with strange coldness. As I introduced myself, she glanced at me and said: "I know who you are". Second. During her presentation at church, anticipating eventual doubts about her gold manifestation, she uttered the following phrase: "By the GODS' sake! Three. During the same presentation she repeated not less than 37 times the words CAPETA and CAPETICE, which mean devil and devil's work. Fourth. At no time did she say how and when she was converted!" I've also seen the videos of Benny Hinn speaking (on more than one occasion) of how he witnessed a man raising from the dead and then later, when interviewed by the media, said that he had never seen any such thing but only heard about it. I watched the video of both accounts. I've also seen the video of Mr. Hinn and his ministry associate Steve Brock in Columbia, where Benny hands Steve a dope pipe and Steve takes a puff. The footage was aired on a local U.S. News channel but has never managed to gain widespread footage.    Most people have also seen the Dateline NBC news story on Hinn, revealing the millions of dollars he takes in from the ministry, the incredible mansions he lives in, and the lavish lifestyle he lives while on the "ministry trail"; sleeping in expensive hotels - in Presidential suites - costing over $2,000 a night. I've also watched the videos of him proclaiming curses (in a demonic sounding voice) to any man or woman who would dare speak a word against his ministry! (I have a few clips stored here: http://john38.com/bennyhinn.html)   Kojo Nana Obiri-Yeboah, a Ghanaian pastor, was known for people feeling electric current pulse through their bodies when he laid hands on them. As it turned out though, he was eventually exposed, as it was discovered he was using a small electrical device that would literally shock the people he prayed for with actual electricity! [Source: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/shocking-ministry/]Given these occurrences, would it really surprise anyone to find that the same has been done on occasion with any number of other "supernatural phenomenon" we have often seen or read about in these types of ministries? That having been said, there are also many reports of strange occurrences in meetings that are more difficult to just dismiss as hoaxes. Could some of these be demonically stimulated events? Could some of them be genuine? What's the fruit? What's the doctrine? What's the character of the person "delivering" the manifestation? We must be discerning! I would warn any believer who has been enticed by this kind of religious fodder to flee it and repent. This, I sincerely believe, is prime example of Christians who are unknowingly beginning to dabble in New Age, Mystical and Occult philosophies. Is it any wonder to you that folks like Patricia King are flat out admitting to you that they are observing the presence of demonic entities in their gatherings or men like Todd Bentley are ignoring prophetic warnings about false angelic visitations and embracing them with open arms? But they are too blind and self-absorbed to think that it is likely evidence of their own delusion. Just notice how even the mention of these kinds of experiences (aside from the damaging aftermath that we rarely hear the rest of the story concerning) almost immediately also translate to the subject of money (the following is a quote directly from Patricia King's website):
Does Scripture align with Patricia's testimony that God directed her to battle the "spirit of mammon" by preaching about financial breakthrough in terms of gaining monetary wealth? In Luke 16, when Jesus talked about the impossibility of serving both God and mammon, His words offended the religious leaders (the Pharisees) because they loved money (vs.14). What is my point? My point is that Jesus did not appeal to those "battling the spirit of mammon" by promising them an increase of mammon! In other words, Patricia's testimony does not appear to align with the teaching of Jesus at all. One thing I do find significant about her testimony is her reference to a "spirit" of mammon. Jesus was referring to concern over material possessions and the love of money, but Mammon is also the name of a Syrian god (a "demon" if you prefer). This term and Jesus' inference would have been understood clearly by the Jews. Jesus left no easy out for those who are anxious about money and worldly possessions. To imagine that Jesus would have even implied a concept of focusing on "financial breakthrough" or the promise of coming material wealth and prosperity would be to completely fabricate a mindset that Jesus never espoused at any time. To put it bluntly, Patricia (in this writer's opinion) does not appear to have heard from God at all on this occasion (if we are to judge by the example and teaching of Christ). So many of these people who pretend to be God's prophets center much of their message around things like "financial breakthrough" because it keeps the offerings coming in. These people often qualify spiritual success by material prosperity, proving only that they are destitute of spiritual maturity and void of truth. Some may be victims of their own ignorance, while others engage these mindsets and practices either because they are deceived or, some, know exactly what they are doing. In any case we ought to remember that if someone comes teaching something that does not align with the example and doctrine of Christ, they reveal plain evidence that the truth is not in them and we should be on guard.
Continuing on with Patricia's account of this occasion where she witnessed a vision of a demonic spirit hovering over her meeting...
Or perhaps someone might logically ask, "Could she have been possessed by a devil???" Just a wild, random thought there. (sigh) ;) "Gold dust fell and covered the hands of many believers in the meeting. Signs and wonders broke out. One young man threw an altar cloth up into the air in excitement and it lifted up through the air by supernatural force to a 30-foot high ceiling and laid flat on the ceiling tiles for a long time." [END QUOTE] In another meeting with Todd Bentley and Bob Jones, both of these men tell a story about an angelic entity that, they claim, actually started the modern prophetic movement:
"In the middle of the service I was in conversation with Ivan and another person when in walks Emma. As I stared at the angel with open eyes, the Lord said, "Here's Emma." I'm not kidding. She floated a couple of inches off the floor. It was almost like Kathryn Khulman in those old videos when she wore a white dress and looked like she was gliding across the platform. Emma appeared beautiful and young - about 22 years old - but she was old at the same time. She seemed to carry the wisdom, virtue and grace of Proverbs 31 on her life. She glided into the room, emitting brilliant light and colors. Emma carried these bags and began pulling gold out of them. Then, as she walked up and down the aisles of the church, she began putting gold dust on people... Within three weeks of that visitation, the church had given me the biggest offering I had ever received to that point in my ministry. Thousands of dollars! Thousands!... During this visitation the pastor's wife (it was an AOG church) got totally whacked by the Holy Ghost - she began running around barking like a dog or squawking like a chicken as a powerful prophetic spirit came on her. Also, as this prophetic anointing came on her, she started getting phone numbers of complete strangers and calling them up on the telephone and prophesying over them... Then angels started showing up in the church." [END QUOTE] Are these really evidences of God moving? Or are they evidences of something else? I am not suggesting that God is incapable of working strange wonders that defy human logic, but I am merely asking the question why is it automatically presumed that something like "gold dust" is a godly manifestation rather than - perhaps - a confirmation of the presence of a "spirit of mammon" (a demonic presence) overtaking the meeting... or even simpler: a hoax or some other explainable phenomenon? I have sat in services where this phenomenon (i.e. "gold dust") has occurred and watched as people give no pause and appear to exercise no discernment, but instantly conclude it is from God. Again, I am not making a conclusion either way by simply posing the question. My prayer is that you, the reader, will simply be encouraged to be wise and use godly discernment when you encounter these things. I am willing to presume that most Christians who have been involved in these kinds of meetings where this type of phenomenon has occurred are probably not aware that it has also transpired among those involved in Catholic mysticism and other forms of witchcraft over the centuries. In other words, it would quite seem that the enemy is just as capable to create supernatural experiences like the ones we are hearing about. Considering the fact that Jesus also warned us about lying signs and wonders in the last days, isn't it wise to recommend examination?
2 Corinthians 11:12-15 (The Message) - "I'm just trying to keep things open and honest between us. And I'm not changing my position on this. I'd die before taking your money. I'm giving nobody grounds for lumping me in with those money-grubbing "preachers," vaunting themselves as something special. They're a sorry bunch--pseudo-apostles, lying preachers, crooked workers--posing as Christ's agents but sham to the core. And no wonder! Satan does it all the time, dressing up as a beautiful angel of light. So it shouldn't surprise us when his servants masquerade as servants of God. But they're not getting by with anything. They'll pay for it in the end." In September of 1999, Charisma News Service reported on an event where people were claiming that "gold dust" was falling in the services (and some people were even claiming healings because of it). "Charisma" had two samples this gold dust analyzed by the U.S. Geological Survey in Washington, D.C. and both were found to be "plastic film with no traces of gold, platinum or silver"! (Gold Dust Phenomenon Stirs Up Questions Among Charismatics, Charisma News, Sep 8, 1999). Even more concerning is the fact that well-known preachers have reported these events in television broadcasts when it turns out that nothing miraculous happened at all. On one occasion, Charisma Magazine reported the following concerning the "gold fillings" phenomenon:
However, the Los Angeles Times reported this to the contrary: "Here at the Family Christian Center, Pastor Rich Oliver draws back his lip and displays a glittering gold crown he says God gave him in March. Actually, dental records show his previous dentist put the crown in on April 29, 1991. When confronted with those records, Oliver says: "I'd have to say I was absolutely wrong . . . [but] none of it distracts from the fact that I know God is a healer." (Struck by 'Golden Miracles', Los Angeles Times, Jan. 25, 2000) Apparently it is believed that the end justifies the means... even if the means are enacted by deception and fraud. I do not believe that is stating things too harshly either, because I have heard, with my own ears, a Christian brother tell me that he doesn't care if strange phenomenon may be represented similarly by those involved in the New Age movement because "as long as it get results, that's all that matters." If someone doesn't believe that there are people under the influence of demonic spirits who are visiting Christian churches and claiming miracles from God (with some ulterior, devious motive), they need to do their homework. I have already mentioned some reports of ministers who claimed to manifest "miracles" and were found to be fraudulent. I also mentioned that there are documented reports of people who manifested the gold phenomenon and went on television and testified in many churches about it, but their "gold flakes", when tested, turned out to be plastic. What are we to do with the detail that some of these meetings where people have reportedly had the "dust" tested by professionals to confirm it's real gold (and, by-the-way, no one seems to know who these "professionals" were and no one has seen any confirmed documentation of the test), their reports have sometimes been challenged by other attending individuals who argued that, when they had the "dust" tested at local jewelers (or as the previous references revealed - even the U.S. Geological Survey in Washington, D.C.) it was confirmed to be "reflected, golden, cellophane"? Someone is lying or, at best, confused. In another account, people were believed to have developed Cancer from breathing in gold dust flakes! And in one account I read, a sick person was even advised by a voodoo cult to attend a church where this was happening in order to get healed. Does anyone care to explain why the devil would want people to go somewhere if the glory of God was expected to change their lives??? Some people believe God is bringing the gold dust miracle to draw the lost into churches... Put another way, they could just as easily say that "God is using MONEY to draw people to church." This logic (in my opinion) runs contrary to Jesus' instruction to GO into the highways and byways and compel them to come in... But into what? A church building? NO! The Lord was talking about inviting people into His kingdom, not a religious institution. Institutional churches obviously love numbers because numbers mean money to pay the bills and engage their many projects (so in this regard it makes sense that money would be the lure to attract more money). The sad part is that not only are the "numbers" of people brought in to help pay the bills while enjoying a comfortable religious routine, but they are introduced to a myriad of unbiblical doctrines and religious mindsets (bondages really) that run contrary to Scripture and which distract from the Gospel and the freedom that exists in Christ. The Bible says that it is God's kindness (not "gold dust" or money) that leads people to repentance (not "church").
Another common "problem" among many of today's so-called prophets is that they "prophesy" in extreme generalities. One obvious and unfortunate example of this is Patricia King. In preface I will say that I have never met Patricia personally and I'm not at all suggesting that she is not a nice person with good intentions. I am simply observing public examples of testimony (including and especially that from her own mouth and which is viewable on her own website). I've observed several posts by her that contained "prophetic words" and, to be honest, could not keep myself from laughing... Yes, they were that ridiculous! For example, to illustrate that "changes" were coming in 2007 she said the Lord showed her that people will start finding change (coins) in unique places, like on the ground in front of them and in drawers! On other occasions she has given general prophecies that there would be political changes, people moving to new locations, getting new jobs, and switching their college majors. She said there would be catastrophes in the world and that Christians would respond to them... But when hasn't this been true? There have always been people changing jobs, moving to new locations, and switching their college majors. There have always been catastrophes and, since the New Testament Church came into existence, God's people have often (dare I say ALWAYS) responded to need. This is not evidence of anything. It's generic, vague and doesn't confirm anything. Patricia calls her ministry "extreme" prophetic, yet none of this is extreme... It's only extremely generic. Unfortunately, many church folks today can't tell the difference and so they eat this stuff up, which creates a comfortable profession for so many of these wanna-be "prophets". I'm speaking from some experience too (from my past days in church world). I've traveled in these circles. I've been close to people like this. I've used the same kind of exaggerated language and expression. I know the emotion it generates. I know the manipulation it works. And I know the money it often brings in. How can I not talk about it? I've seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears! I've eaten from this rotten tree in the past and vomited up its spoiled fruit. God set me free, so how I can pretend to be blind about it? I don't want to offend people. I don't want to make enemies. I certainly don't want to discourage people from believing in the power of the Holy Spirit, or the prophetic, or the miraculous. But I want the TRUE and not the distraction! Often times these popular "prophetic" figures, aside from the pure nonsense they suggest, also dish out a heavy helping off New Age doctrine and dabbling. Patricia King even tells stories about what she calls "angelic orbs" appearing over people's heads in their meetings. These exact same kinds of phenomenon occur in Occult circles. Often though, when it happens among the super prophets and spiritually naive of today, their answer to concerns is that when worldly people experience things like floating orbs and other supernatural phenomenon, it's just evidence of Satan counterfeiting the true. Sigh... I know this line of reasoning well and used to lean on it myself when I would experience strange things in Christian meetings (especially things that any normal person might automatically relate to familiar Occult-type happenings). The problem with this reasoning is that it automatically assumes that virtually any supernatural experience is "from God" so long as the people who experience it are "Christians". What a dangerous mindset to hold! This mindset stands apart from any kind of godly discernment whatsoever. I can tell you that I sincerely believe there are "Christians" in "Christian churches" led by "Christian prophets" who are quite likely dabbling with the demonic under the guise of "Christian spirituality". Their inner craving for supernatural experiences is drowning out real Spirit-led discernment and opening them up to all kinds of deceptive things. On another occasion I wrote a letter to a friend of mine, answering some of her questions regarding why I had pause concerning people like Bob Jones (more on this later). She forwarded my letter to Patricia and, as expected, Patricia took the defense of Bob (someone who has a documented history of mental illness, sexual indiscretion, and false prophetic utterances) and claimed that I had misrepresented the information. Not surprising to me was the fact that she supplied no evidence that my information was misreported and did not comment on the references I supplied to show my reason for concern. She simply, apparently, expected my friend to take her word for it without any evidence or clear explanation to the contrary. Sadly, this is VERY typical among these so-called "prophets" of our day. They all defend each other, while calling those who ask questions by all kinds of derogatory terminology. I don't mind Patricia King saying I am wrong concerning the information I obtained, but explain why I am wrong. Give me document evidences to the contrary. (To Patricia King directly I ask you this:) Explain, if you know Patricia, what really happened (and I will post your comments). I have no intention to smear anyone's good name. But so many of you ("prophets") have smeared your own names through your generic mutterings, false doctrines, evidence of greed, and flat out bad actions (not to mention your dabbling in New Age philosophies and demonic phenomenon). When thinking people point you out, you claim they are bitter, ignorant, deceived, hateful, etc. but you supply no clear evidences to the contrary and you take no responsibility for your own sins or weaknesses. You presume much and manifest little evidence, if any, of genuine Christ like behavior. You may not like the fact that someone like myself alerts people to observe you with great caution, but such is wisdom - especially according to Scripture (as we shall read in a moment). Another one of the great problems with many of these so-called modern-day prophets and apostles is that their prophecies often fail (even miserably). This is a very serious matter that too few Christians (and even many leaders of religious organizations) take all together too lightly because whenever men speak in terms of "thus saith the Lord" and it turns out that they were really not speaking by unction of the Holy Spirit at all they can destroy people's lives! It is an extremely serious thing to claim to be speaking the very oracles of God. Even more unfortunate is that most of these individuals never take responsibility for their failed prophecies but rather lay the blame on the people they prophesy to! Typically, they give a "prophetic" word and then when it doesn't happen they either blame the Church for their lack of prayer or they commend the Church for their prayer if the prophesied end result of a warning is averted. Either way, they skirt the detail that their many prophecies often fail to come to pass. An example I have personally heard used often is a reminding of the story of Jonah who prophesied of Ninevah's destruction, which of course did not come to pass because the people repented. These kinds of responses are common when these modern so-called prophets do not see their prophecies come to fruition. Of course it matters not if people repented or not with these modern "prophets". They operate according to possibilities that can never be easily gauged (if at all).  Bob Jones in particular [a man who was initially removed from ministry because he asked women to disrobe themselves in his office so that they would "stand naked before the Lord" as he prophesied (1)] has given numerous failed prophecies, yet he states that this is fine. A few years back I heard him say in a meeting that there was only something like a 15%-35% accuracy rating among modern prophets at that time but that God has grace and the rate of accuracy will improve as we get closer to the end. It has also been reported by other sources that he has said the accuracy rating may be as low as 10%! (2) In a cassette tape message by Jones called The Shepherd's Rod, he stated that God isn't releasing 100% accuracy right now, because if He did, he would have to kill people (as He did with Ananias and Saphireh) and if he himself hits at least 2/3rds he said he's doing pretty good! (3) In the same message he stated that prophets are like guns and missed prophecies are like "blanks" but that even the blanks are of God! According to Jones, God told him, ""l'm loading the guns, I'm putting the blanks in!" He said that even missed prophecies (like blanks in a gun) still scare the enemy! Jones' friend and ministry associate, Paul Keith Davis, affirms the logic claiming today's prophets are frequently erring in his book called "Engaging the Revelatory Realm of Heaven" where he states: "Today´s prophetic community will be as small children who are like kindergarteners compared to the college-level expressions that will come." (4)Despite these radical claims, excusing themselves from incredible error, hearers are still expected to treat every word as if it is 100% true (not 10% or 15%). In fact, regardless of the allowance for error, Bob Jones still claims that "third wave" prophets will have 10 times the anointing of Moses and that these prophets will be more powerful than any prophet that has ever lived throughout all of history, even Elijah, Peter or Paul. (5) And Bob is not the only one among these so-called prophets who make claims like this; Some (like Bob Jones' friend, Jack Deere) even claim that third wave prophets will have an even greater anointing than Jesus Christ Himself! (6) These wild claims (including the habit of comparing themselves to the apostles and prophets of Scripture - even to Jesus Himself) are many and frequent in bold attempts to validate themselves. There is an immediate warning Christians need to educate themselves with (the Scriptural proof that this demonstrates they are ABSOLUTELY false apostles and prophets):
These men claim to be Bible believing and even sometimes encourage believers to be discerning and wise, mindful of Scripture, but those who then use discernment and reject a word are often deemed as being contentious, rebellious or out of touch with spiritual reality. These men have placed themselves in authoritative positions and demand allegiance and refuse to be challenged or held accountable for what they teach and how they act. We should not forget what the Word of God teaches about those whose prophecies fail and who claim to speak for God but neglect to bring a true word. I am first reminded of God's warning concerning the (false) prophets of Israel. Oh they claimed to be true prophets and they stood declaring many magnificent things and stirred up quite a following for themselves...
Jeremiah 5:30-31 - A horrible and shocking thing has happened in this land - the prophets give false prophecies, and the priests rule with an iron hand. And worse yet, my people like it that way! But what will you do when the end comes? Where does a person ever get the idea from Scripture that God is somehow ok with a 15% accuracy rating among His prophets? Or let's put emphasis on the greater reality; 85% false prophecy is what we're talking about here! The other 15% could very well be accounted for by means of just lucky guessing, don't you think? Or even more disturbing, demonic or Occultic inspiration! This is just ridiculous! God's Word is never light concerning failed prophecy and those who are responsible for it (not to mention those who participate in it - on the recipient end). Jesus exposed religious leaders who claimed to speak for God, but did so falsely. He called it "careless speech". That is what so many of these modern day prophets are preaching? They say, "don't worry about the fact that many times prophecies don't come to pass. We're human. We make mistakes..." or "you people should have prayed more for them to come to pass." But they go on speaking as though they have authority and that all must heed their words as though God was speaking audibly Himself.
The Message Bible quotes verse 36 of the preceding passage this way: Matthew 12:36 - Let me tell you something: Every one of these careless words is going to come back to haunt you. There will be a time of Reckoning. Words are powerful; take them seriously. Just as Jesus did not let off the religious leaders of His day lightly for the words they enticed the crowds with, neither did God overlook false prophecy spoken by men in the Old Testament. There is a consistent theme throughout Scripture of how seriously God takes the matter of claiming to speak in His name. This is not a light thing and Christians should not dismiss these warnings: Jeremiah 14:14-16 - Then the LORD said, "These prophets are telling lies in my name. I did not send them or tell them to speak. I did not give them any messages. They prophesy of visions and revelations they have never seen or heard. They speak foolishness made up in their own lying hearts. Therefore, says the LORD, I will punish these lying prophets, for they have spoken in my name even though I never sent them. They say that no war or famine will come, but they themselves will die by war and famine! As for the people to whom they prophesy-their bodies will be thrown out into the streets of Jerusalem, victims of famine and war. There will be no one left to bury them. Husbands, wives, sons, and daughters-all will be gone. For I will pour out their own wickedness on them. Jeremiah 23:9-12 - My heart is broken because of the false prophets, and I tremble uncontrollably. I stagger like a drunkard, like someone overcome by wine, because of the holy words the LORD has spoken against them. For the land is full of adultery, and it lies under a curse. The land itself is in mourning-its pastures are dried up. For the prophets do evil and abuse their power. The priests are like the prophets, all ungodly, wicked men. I have seen their despicable acts right here in my own Temple," says the LORD. Therefore, their paths will be dark and slippery. They will be chased down dark and treacherous trails, where they will fall. For I will bring disaster upon them when their time of punishment comes. I, the LORD, have spoken! Jeremiah 23:16-27 - This is my warning to my people," says the LORD Almighty. "Do not listen to these prophets when they prophesy to you, filling you with futile hopes. They are making up everything they say. They do not speak for the LORD! They keep saying to these rebels who despise my word, 'Don't worry! The LORD says you will have peace!' And to those who stubbornly follow their own evil desires, they say, 'No harm will come your way!' But can you name even one of these prophets who knows the LORD well enough to hear what he is saying? Has even one of them cared enough to listen? Look! The LORD'S anger bursts out like a storm, a whirlwind that swirls down on the heads of the wicked. The anger of the LORD will not diminish until it has finished all his plans. In the days to come, you will understand all this very clearly. I have not sent these prophets, yet they claim to speak for me. I have given them no message, yet they prophesy. If they had listened to me, they would have spoken my words and turned my people from their evil ways. Am I a God who is only in one place?" asks the LORD. "Do they think I cannot see what they are doing? Can anyone hide from me? Am I not everywhere in all the heavens and earth?" asks the LORD. "I have heard these prophets say, 'Listen to the dream I had from God last night.' And then they proceed to tell lies in my name. How long will this go on? If they are prophets, they are prophets of deceit, inventing everything they say. By telling these false dreams, they are trying to get my people to forget me, just as their ancestors did by worshiping the idols of Baal. Jeremiah 23:30-40 - "Therefore," says the LORD, "I stand against these prophets who get their messages from each other-these smooth-tongued prophets who say, 'this prophecy is from the LORD!' Their imaginary dreams are flagrant lies that lead my people into sin. I did not send or appoint them, and they have no message at all for my people," says the LORD. "Suppose one of the people or one of the prophets or priests asks you, 'What prophecy has the LORD burdened you with now?' You must reply, 'You are the burden! The LORD says he will abandon you!' If any prophet, priest, or anyone else says, 'I have a prophecy from the LORD,' I will punish that person along with his entire family. You should keep asking each other, 'What is the LORD'S answer?' or 'What is the LORD saying?' But stop using this phrase, 'prophecy from the LORD.' For people are using it to give authority to their own ideas, turning upside down the words of our God, the living God, the LORD Almighty. "This is what you should say to the prophets: 'What is the LORD'S answer?' or 'What is the LORD saying?' But suppose they respond, 'this is a prophecy from the LORD!' Then you should say, 'this is what the LORD says: Because you have used this phrase, "prophecy from the LORD," even though I warned you not to use it, I will forget you completely. I will expel you from my presence, along with this city that I gave to you and your ancestors. And I will make you an object of ridicule, and your name will be infamous throughout the ages.'" Still think God's ok with 15% accuracy while demanding that everyone treat these guys as if they are always 100%? Uh, I don't think so. Some of their teachings and "words from the Lord" also do not coincide well with Scripture (if at all on many occasions). JOYNER AND THE KNIGHTS OF MALTA: Another great concern of mine is the involvement of some of these men with extremely anti-Gospel organizations. Rick Joyner has been knighted into the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (a.k.a. The Knights of Malta; a.k.a The Order of Saint John - as he directly refers to it). This subject would take too much time to detail completely here, but I will give you the basics for review (I have researched these details thoroughly myself and can affirm they are true). The Knights of Malta are, historically, a Roman Catholic Order that serve in allegiance to the wishes of the Roman Church and the Pope himself. Pope John Paul II wore Maltese crosses on his robes very visibly to identify with the Knights of Malta (proving, all the more, the Roman Catholic connection). Those crosses are also on many Catholic ornaments and clothes. (the Catholic Encyclopedia affirms these facts). The Knights of Malta are a massive organization with many chapters worldwide. Ordination into this group is by selection only. Joyner, in particular, has tried to assert that Malta is a purely "Christian" organization but leaves out the detail that it is a purely Catholic "Christian" Order and has been since its inception just after 1100 A.D. NOTE: In the case that you may be visiting this page and presently identify yourself as a Catholic, I wish you to understand that (while I love and respect you as a person whom God created and for which Jesus died to save) I do not hold Catholicism as being a Christian denomination and I would lovingly recommend you click this link to read a free e-book explaining why Catholicism and biblical Christianity are not synonymous (the book is called "Answers To My Catholic Friends). Joyner denies that the Order is governed by the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. In a bulletin posted on his website he made the following statement:
In fairness, I ordered the book that Joyner authored on the history of the Order (which also details information about the order he supposedly belongs to) to get Joyner's full take on things and to examine the statements he makes about the Order in the book. I also contacted members of the hierarchy in the Roman Catholic Order to gather information directly "from the horses mouth" so to speak. In a word, Joyner appears to be lying about the Order's connection to Roman Catholicism!  The chapter of the Knights of Malta that Joyner is apparently a member of is recognized as the Grand Priory of Canada. They are affiliated with the Greek-Melkite-Catholic Church. The Melkites are supposedly not technically "Roman" Catholics (thus enabling Joyner to make the implication that they are not a "Roman" Catholic Order); HOWEVER (and this is VERY important), the Melkite Church (and I quote directly from their website) are admittedly "in union with the Church of Rome." The Wikipedia Online Encyclopedia also states: "The Melkite Greek Catholic Church is an Eastern Rite church with Eastern Orthodox traditions in FULL COMMUNION WITH the Roman Catholic Church." They acknowledge their church's submission to the authority of the Pope. They practice the Roman Catholic tradition of the Mass and Holy Eucharist (in which a priest invokes the Holy Spirit over the bread and wine believing that He transubstantiates these elements into the literal flesh and blood of Christ to enable union with the Divine - members believe they are actually consuming the "Divine Presence" of Jesus LITERALLY - in other words, this amounts to a form of cannibalism) and they employ the use of icons, vestments, and liturgical vessels for the Divine Liturgy which are fully harmonious with the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church. The Melkite Greek Catholic Church also honors Mary as the Theotokos (Mother of God) and believe that "Mary bridges the gap between God and us" because she carried the Son of God in her womb. She is a (if not the) vital mediator between God and man. The Melkites DO NOT believe Salvation is wrought of Christ's work alone, but that Christ THROUGH MARY saves sinners! One of the lines in their liturgy says, "Through the prayers of the Mother of God, O Savior, save us." And another line in the prayer offered by the priest in ceremony says, "Let us remember our all-holy, spotless, most highly blessed and glorious Lady the Mother of God and ever-virgin Mary with all the saints, and commend ourselves and one another and our while life to Christ God." And yet another line of prayer by the priest cites, "Again, we offer You this spiritual worship... Especially, for our all-holy,. spotless, most highly blessed and glorious Lady the Mother of God and everlasting virgin Mary," to which the people reply, "It is truly meet to bless you O Theotokos who are ever blessed and all blameless and the Mother of our God. More honored than the Cherubim and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim you who without stain did bear God the Word, you are truly Theotokos we magnify you." It goes on, but I am too nauseous to continue... In short, to an ignorant Protestant they would presume the Melkites are Roman Catholics to the core because of all appearances. Well, semantics aside, I assert boldly that they are no different. They boldly admit union with the Church of Rome and the Roman Pope though they, at the same time, do not claim to be "Roman" Catholic. The bottom line: They believe and practice (with only very slight variation) essentially the same thing as Roman Catholics! They are, in fact, Catholic (admittedly) and they stand in FULL COMMUNION WITH THE ROMAN CHURCH! Clearly, Rick Joyner is deceptively misleading people with his comments about the Order of Malta.   RIGHT PHOTO: Roman Catholic Grand Master of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta kissing the Pope's ring One website recounting the history of the Order and commenting on the Joyner connection states the following: "...the OSJ specially targeted and persecuted Protestants. Through out the centuries, Multitudes of Christians called Heretics were slaughtered by those zealous and implacable Knights of the Order of Saint John. Rick Joyner before taking the Oath of allegiance to this secret Order, knew that the swords and spears of the Knights of Malta were always covered with the innocent blood of Christian Martyrs." As the previous quotation pointed out, the early formation of the Order of Malta was responsible for slaughtering non-Catholics (yes, even Christians). Ironically, the Knights were deemed as being noble defenders of the cross, though they attacked, tortured and killed many of those who were saved by the blood shed on that very cross. It is important to note that even though the Catholic Church may employ phrases and titles that sound "Christian", it is more important to discover how they themselves define and applicate these terms. I can assure you that, most of the time, it is not according the same mindset that Protestants would attribute such terms. Joyner has borrowed some of the Christian-sounding terminology and ran with it - even inventing his own Order, "The Knights of the Cross" (which you can read about on his ministry's website). Joyner believes that the Order of Malta is going to be especially used and even restored to its former glory in the last days. In His book "The Final Quest" Joyner identifies the "enemies of the cross" that he believes will be fought against by such Orders in the last days... He speaks about "Hordes of Hell marching" that ride on the backs of Christians! As Joyner states concerning them: "The most shocking part of this vision was that this horde was not riding on horses, but on Christians! Most of them were well dressed, respectable, and had the appearance of being refined and educated. These were Christians who had opened themselves to the powers of darkness to such a degree that the enemy could use them and they would think that they were being used by God." It's very important to weight carefully, in light of all of this evidence, what Joyner may be implying when he speaks of Christians who open themselves to the power of darkness. It seems the ones he regards as being part of this horde of hell may in fact be those who are wise and discerning of the truth, who call into question men like Joyner and his doctrines. The Roman Catholic Church made virtually the same argument about its "enemies of the cross" during the Crusades! Considering now that Joyner is in clear league with the Roman Catholic Church (or Greek-Melkite-Catholic Church if you prefer) and is inspired by the mission of the Crusades and now even belongs to one of their Catholic Orders himself, I think it's fair to say that we have all the context we need to make the conclusion that it is Joyner who has opened himself up to the powers of darkness.
Joyner furthermore believes that Orders (in general) are vital to the advancing of the kingdom of God because he believes that the Church is too weak to be content with just being members of the body of Christ alone. Note the following quote by Mr. Joyner himself:
So, what Joyner really means in answer to this question is "yes"... and why? Because his view of the body of Christ is that she is weak and feeble and inable to advance spiritually without orders of man. Is there any Scripture at all that sides with such a dismal, sick and twisted view of the body of Christ as what Joyner espouses? I don't know of one... On the contrary, I am reminded of the following:
Ephesians 1:22-23 - God has put all things under the power of Christ, and for the good of the church he has made him the head of everything. The church is Christ's body and is filled with Christ who completely fills everything. Ephesians 4:15-16 - Instead, we will hold to the truth in love, becoming more and more in every way like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church. Under his direction, the whole body is fitted together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love. Ephesians 5:25-27 And you husbands must love your wives with the same love Christ showed the church. He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean, washed by baptism and God's word. He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. Ephesians 5:29-30 - No one hates his own body but lovingly cares for it, just as Christ cares for his body, which is the church. And we are his body. 1 Timothy 3:15 - "...This is the church of the living God, which is the pillar and support of the truth." Colossians 2:19 - "...For we are joined together in his body by his strong sinews, and we grow only as we get our nourishment and strength from God." It does not seem to me that Joyner is talking about the same body of Christ that Scripture refers to. In fact, if his view is that a weak Church needs human Orders to strengthen it, what does that say of the Bible's teaching on weakness?
1 Corinthians 1:24-31 - But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Christ is the mighty power of God and the wonderful wisdom of God. This "foolish" plan of God is far wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God's weakness is far stronger than the greatest of human strength. Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world's eyes, or powerful, or wealthy when God called you. Instead, God deliberately chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose those who are powerless to shame those who are powerful. God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important, so that no one can ever boast in the presence of God. God alone made it possible for you to be in Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made Christ to be wisdom itself. He is the one who made us acceptable to God. He made us pure and holy, and he gave himself to purchase our freedom. As the Scriptures say, "The person who wishes to boast should boast only of what the Lord has done." Joyner's own ministry website confirms that he had long desired to be knighted into the Order of Malta and at long last his dream came true in the 90's. There is much controversy surrounding his involvement with this order and some of the other teachings he has embraced, sufficient that I feel it important enough not to endorse his ministry and to warn other believers to be careful about what you read and hear from this man. His books concerning his supposed visions and dreams are presented as though they were equal to (dare I say greater than) Scripture. I have often wondered how one man can remember such extravagant, remarkable (might I add unbelievable) details in such precise order and clarity, enough to fill entire books, volume after volume and seem to have become so important a figure that he is graced to visit heaven and see angels and talk with dead apostles and even Jesus Himself! It would seem that not even one character of Scripture can even compare with the wild revelations Rick Joyner claims to have been given directly from God. Even the apostle Paul said that when he was taken into the third heaven he witnessed things so wonderful and astounding that he was unable to even speak of them (the KJV actually says these were not lawful for him to utter). In fact, Paul's words are met with such humility that he doesn't even make himself the central focus of this experience but rather refers to the event by saying "I once knew a man...", yet apparently Rick Joyner has been granted an extra high place above Paul that enables him to take the spot light and preach, teach and fill volumes of books on his heavenly experiences for all to marvel at... Not to mention the fact that these books are NOT free. Joyner profits a great deal from these so-called "revelations" from Jesus Christ. I am thoroughly amazed at the great arrogance of this man and the fact that so many people still believe he is a trustworthy teacher. Great emphasis is placed on "new truths" and "revelation" while what Scripture presents is considered "old truth" and less significant for our day. I have been to a conference at Joyner's church and watched as hundreds shout in approval of "ministers" who preach a Gospeless gospel, void of Scripture, and full of hyperbole and false teaching. It is truly grievous to behold. Friends, this report is coming from a person who once admired this man and his writings... that is before the Lord began to peel the blinders off my eyes. I truly do not want to believe ill of anyone and it pains me to have to point out what I have witnessed of Joyner and his organization. I do not know Rick personally (though I have made several personal attempts to contact him - each to no avail), but my decision is made from research of the Order of Malta he belongs to and was chosen by the Roman Catholic organization to join and the materials in his own books, audio materials, conferences, and on his website. And, as I stated previously, I have also personally visited his church to watch first hand the kind of deception going on and I have also witnessed (with my own eyes) as this man (and his "prophets") nods in approval of teachers who grace his pulpit that espouse Roman Catholic concepts (such as the belief that Peter was the first Pope and the building of God's Church is to be orchestrated by men)! I feel this is a very serious issue that Christians should not be ignorant about and not take lightly. Please, if you have any concern or doubt, don't think that I expect you to simply take my word for things. I share this as a cautionary warning. By all means I encourage you to research these things for yourself. Joyner may have had a pure heart at one point in time and he may have even taught elements of truth at one time (or even still on occasion), but his current involvements should raise strong red flags for every believer. Yes, he needs prayer and yes, I believe God loves him and can save him, but considering his present condition and the false teachings and agenda he espouses I believe true Christians need to heed the words of Jesus and LEAVE HIM ALONE! May the Lord enlighten you and all of us with true and godly discernment. There are a number of popular "prophets" that travel and associate with Joyner as well and stand in agreement and participation with him in these areas, so I feel it important not to endorse their ministries either - if for no other reasons that Christians would exercise a heightened sense of caution when hearing or reading anything from these individuals. Some of the very names I mentioned even met with Saddam Hussein (former Iraqi dictator) in the mid 90's (Paul Cain in particular) and expressed repentance on behalf of America for our involvement in their affairs and Joyner, at the time, even remarked that Saddam was not a madman as most people think but very kind, accepting of Christians and a family man!!! Paul Cain's own website boasts a picture of him sitting in casual conversation with Saddam!  I was just amazed reading his approving comments of this horrible, murderous dictator who has provided harbor and funding for terrorists and literally slaughtered millions of his own people, including Christians (whom he calls "Zionists"). This evil man believed himself to be King Nebuchadnezzar reincarnated and eagerly anticipated the destruction of the Jewish nation and America! King Nebuchadnezzar, as most of us know, is often regarded historically for the pillage, plunger and desecration of Jerusalem as well as the captivity of the Jewish people. I've seen horrible pictures of the Kurdish children that were brutally killed by his chemical warfare attacks in 1988.At least 182,000 Kurds in Iraq were murdered or are missing and presumed dead. Authorities on Iraq estimate that 1.3 million people have died as a direct result of Saddam Hussein's acts of terror since 1979. Regardless of the facts about Saddam's true beliefs and obvious evil actions, apparently Paul Cain's meeting with Saddam was so favorable that Saddam even personally regarded him as a prophet! That right there is concerning, for all of us know that Saddam never demonstrated any evidence of Christianity, he hated the West, favored terrorism, and had in mind only to dictate, dominate and murder. Even some of his last words before his execution were proud admittance that he had spent his entire life in jihad and aggression. An article in Christianity Today, December 2003, even reported that literally hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Christians were celebrating the capture of Hussein! Comparing these believers to Paul Cain, I wonder who has more discernment? Why would a Christian-hating terrorist madman endorse a Christian prophet unless that prophet was tickling his ears? It is a question that, given all I have read, I can't help but wonder. According to the Press Enterprise in Southern California, "Hussein killed both Iraqi Muslims and Christians, destroying churches and forcing many to flee. 'It was just something that had to happen. He hurt everyone,' said Fadiah Ziro, 19, whose family members are Chaldean Christian refugees from Iraq. 'Maybe everything will just calm down (now).' " - Christianity Today, 12/15/2003 And this is all without discussing the fact that Paul Cain, who has been heralded as a prophet of prophets, is a confirmed homosexual and alcoholic (information that was also suppressed by Joyner's ministry - and other ministries - for over a year before they finally admitted they had protected him and allowed his influence to spread while profiting by his "ministry")! Todd Bentley (interestingly enough) also invited Paul Cain to his church after Paul's fall and Paul used the opportunity to issue his full endorsement of Todd, calling him "the new Elijah". Paul also took a moment to claim that he has been celibate and pure his whole life and that he was wrongly accused and framed concerning the charges of sexual misconduct against him. What's so concerning is the fact that, Todd's well knowing that Paul Cain had already been outed and had himself confessed to the charges of homosexual activity and drunkenness, he let Paul go on in the meeting and lie to the congregation to garner his support and lend credibility to the glowing comments about Todd from the pulpit. These men (and I would be equally suspect of any who associate and support them) are not trustworthy individuals, in my opinion, and have no place leading God's little lambs. They have proved themselves by very powerful public display to be unworthy of such a privilege and I would question any pastor or church that would endorse their ministry knowing all that is publically known and confirmed about them. I pray that God changes Rick Joyner's heart as well as Paul Cain and others who are associated with their organizations. God loves them and died for them too. My words of caution are not to suggest they are any less loved by Jesus or that any particular sin committed is beyond the reach of God's amazing grace. In fact, as I stated earlier, they may have started out on the right path initially before being deceived... and even though they may be caught in deception at this moment, I believe God is faithful and extends mercy to even the most wicked, ca |